The meeting was called to order at 11:07 a.m. In attendance were Chairman George Beasley, Commissioner Richard Ubl, Commissioner Samantha Dailey, Police Chief Don Thomas, Fire Chief Bill Riddle, and City Attorney Keith Foster.

A motion to approve the agenda was made by Commissioner Dailey and seconded by Commissioner Ubl.

Ayes: 3

Nays: 0

Abstain: 0

A motion to approve the minutes from the open session of the June 2, 2004 meeting, as written, was made by Commissioner Ubl and seconded by Commissioner Dailey.

Ayes: 3

Nays: 0

Abstain: 0

A motion to approve the minutes from the closed session of the June 2, 2004 meeting, as written, was made by Commissioner Ubl and seconded by Commissioner Dailey.

Ayes: 3

Nays: 0

Abstain: 0

Chairman Beasley read a letter he received from Chief Thomas to officially inform the Commission that Officers Flynn and Wojcik had successfully completed their probationary periods. He said that copies of this letter also were sent to Mayor Swedberg, City Manager Nicklas, Officer Flynn, Officer Wojcik, and Mike Larmon, FOP President. Commissioner Ubl recommended that the Commissioners also send a letter of congratulations to these two officers. Recording Secretary Tritle said that she had the two letters typed and ready for the Commissioners to sign at the end of the meeting. Chief Thomas added that they are both terrific additions to the department.

• I/O Solutions Invoices for Testing Services

Chairman Beasley said that he had approved the payment of two invoices from I/O Solutions. The first was for their administration of the promotional written and oral exam to Firefighter Penn ($650.00). The second was for their administration of the written exam to entry-level Firefighter candidates ($802.00). Recording Secretary Tritle verified that they had already been sent to Accounts Payable for processing.

Commissioner Ubl asked about the budget for the Commission. Recording Secretary Tritle said that she thought it was either $12,000 of $15,000 for the fiscal year of May 1, 2004 – April 30, 2005. Commissioner Beasley thought it would be a good idea for the Commissioners to receive a quarterly budget statement. Commissioner Dailey asked if the Commissioners ever come close to spending all of the funds in their budget. Chairman Beasley thought that they did. Chief Thomas explained that Brian Gregory in the Finance Office gives all of the Department Heads a monthly budget report. He thought that this would be something that Brian could also do for the Commissioners each month. Recording Secretary Tritle asked if the Commissioners would prefer it to be reported monthly, or quarterly, to coincide with their regular meeting schedule. Chairman Beasley said that he thought it would be good to get a monthly report, as long as Brian was already doing it for the other departments. Commissioner Ubl asked if the City Manager could amend their budget at his discretion. Recording Secretary Tritle said that the City Manager would redistribute funds within budget line items if necessary at the end of the year.

Chief Riddle reported that two were on board and working; the third Firefighter would be hired from the new list. Chairman Beasley asked if the two new Firefighters were working out. Chief Riddle reported that they are both doing outstanding jobs.

 

 

 

 

 

 

• Status on the Results of Firefighter Penn’s Promotional Examination

Chief Riddle reported that the results of Firefighter Penn’s promotional examination changed the rankings on the promotional list. Firefighter Penn is now first on the list, followed by Firefighter Lyon in second place and Firefighter Doty in third place. He also reported that there had been no further correspondence or communications from the Firefighters concerning this matter. Chairman Beasley asked if the list had been already posted. Chief Riddle verified that it had.

• Status on Establishing a New Eligibility List for Entry-level Firefighters

Chairman Beasley reported that the written examination had already been given to the candidates. The oral examination was schedule to be given to eligible candidates on August 23, 24, and 25.

Chairman Beasley wanted to make sure that the decision concerning the eligibility of the Interns in the Fire Department who are under the age of 21 to take the written exam was put on record. He reported that there are three Interns currently working with the Sycamore Fire Department who wished to take the exam – one was over age 21, but the other two were under 21. City Attorney Foster reported that he had done research on this topic and found it to be a developing area, with no steadfast rules. Therefore, he said that the decision as to whether or not to allow these interns to take the test was up to the Commissioners. Commissioner Ubl reported that he had talked to the attorney for the Illinois Municipal League, who told him that, if the Rules and Regulations state that the minimum age is 21, the Commissioners should stick to this. Chairman Beasley said that he thought the Commissioners should not change the minimum age at this time, but should reconsider it in the future. Commissioner Ubl and Commissioner Dailey both agreed. Commissioner Dailey wondered if the concern with lowering the minimum age to 18 has to do with a candidate’s ability to be able to do the job at a younger age. Chairman Beasley said that he feels that 18 year-olds would be capable of doing the job; if they are old enough to serve in Baghdad, he has no doubt they can also serve as a Firefighter. His explained that his concern had to do with changing the testing rules in the midst of setting up this particular list. Chief Riddle agreed that it would be best not to change the rules in the middle of the hiring process. He said that he would like to see them changed before the next testing process. Chairman Beasley wondered if it would be unusual for an 18-year old to already have met all of the requirements needed to become a Firefighter for the City of Sycamore. Chief Riddle said that the current Firefighters are concerned that they will lose good Interns to other municipalities if we do not allow them to test. Chairman Beasley said that the Commission would address this issue again after the testing process is completed. He added that he feels that these younger candidates really have the desire to do the job. He asked Chief Thomas if he has the same type of program in the Police Department. Chief Thomas answered that they do not. He said that this is due to the fact that a Police Officer’s job is different from that of a Firefighter. A Firefighter has many different physical skills to learn, whereas a Police Officer has more academic requirements. An Intern, therefore, could not work along side a Police Officer until he or she has met these some of these requirements, such as knowledge of the law or development of people skills.

City Attorney Foster reported that he had also done research into the question of whether or not the Commissioners could require candidates for the position of Firefighter to pass an agility examination. He said that Chief Riddle had suggested in the past that, in order for the test to be valid, it would also need to be applied to the existing active Firefighters as well. City Attorney Foster said that he did not see any support for this in his research. He did, however, find support for administering a nondiscriminatory agility test to pre-employment candidates. He said that the word "nondiscriminatory" was not clearly defined. In other words, if it is a physical requirement and can be shown to be job-related and necessary, then it is okay to use the test. He further explained that there was concern that the Americans with Disabilities Act would prohibit this type of test. However, the regulations that have come down have recognized the need to ensure that potential Police Officers and Firefighters are physically capable of doing these jobs. He added that, if there were a way to accommodate a candidate so that he or she could do the job, this would need to be taken into account. He said that, on its face, a physical agility exam is not improper or illegal. Vision and hearing are both important issues, as well as maximum weight. Lifting ability is something that each department can require. He said that the tests would need to be nondiscriminatory when it came to the physical characteristics of certain races or gender. He gave the example of requiring that a candidate be able to lift something that everyone knows a woman would not be capable of lifting. Similarly, the physical sizes of certain races of people are different, so the test would also need to take this into account in order to avoid any charges of it being discriminatory. He said that, as long as the test is not designed to eliminate candidates from certain groups, it should be okay. City Attorney Foster also explained that, before a candidate takes an agility test, he or she should be required to sign a Release of Liability Form, in case the candidate becomes injured while taking the test. This release would be effective in insulating the individuals involved, such as the Fire Chief, from personal liability, though he said that recent cases have held that the City could still be liable for injuries that occur during the testing process; it would depend upon how difficult the test would be to take. While he said that this is not an Illinois case, it did occur in the state of Pennsylvania, and it could be expected that, if the same thing did happen here, the same concept would follow. Therefore, release from liability is a very important thing to consider when administering an agility test. He reiterated that he did not find anything in his research that indicated that, if an agility exam is given as a pre-employment requirement, it must also be given to existing active Police Officers and Firefighters.

Chief Riddle said that the test he had in mind to give was very simple. Candidates must demonstrate that they can climb up a ladder, crawl with a charged hose line, use a mask, navigate under blackout conditions, and navigate through a maze to demonstrate that they are not claustrophobic. They would also be required to climb steps with a simulated patient (approximately 35 pounds) on a stretcher, demonstrate that they can turn on a fire hydrant, and open a car door and remove a dummy from the vehicle. He said that all of these exercises are totally job-related; City Attorney Foster agreed. Chief Riddle said that he would like to see minimum and maximum weight requirements put into place as well. Chairman Beasley said that he has a problem with the weight requirement, in that some people who are not really overweight would be judged that way by the medical tables put out for measurement. Chief Thomas agreed, adding that sometimes the extra weight a person carries is due to the fact that he or she is very is muscular. Chief Riddle agreed that it might be best to leave this issue alone. He said that he would write up the test and get back to the Commissioners as soon as possible, since he would like to be able to administer the test to the candidates on the new eligibility list when it is finalized. Commissioner Ubl asked who would administer the test. Chief Riddle answered that he would put together a team consisting of a member from the IAFF union, a member of management, and himself to do this. Commissioner Ubl asked if the Department had the necessary facilities for conducting the test on-site. Chief Riddle verified that they did. Commissioner Dailey asked at what point in the hiring process the test would be administered. Chief Riddle answered that, in the future, it would be done after the written exam had taken place. For list that will be established within the next month, it will be performed upon job offer, along with the background, psychological, and physical exams.

Chief Thomas asked the Commissioners if they were aware that the lawyer for the State Fire and Police Commission constantly tells Departments not to administer an agility test. He said the attorney for the State Commission has taken the position that any test that is required of an entry-level candidate must also be administered to the active employees in the department. Chief Thomas said that he has been hearing this from that office for many years. City Attorney Foster said that he couldn’t find any support for this concept. He added that it is fair to say that, if the department administers an agility test, there is a risk that a candidate may be excluded and that this candidate could claim that he or she was excluded for improper purposes. If you don’t administer a test, then you don’t run this risk. Chief Thomas said that he could see a practical problem will arise in who will decide what will be considered a passing grade. Chief Riddle said that it would be pass or fail – there will be no numerical score. Chief Thomas said that where the pass/fail point is set is also of interest. He said that the Police Department sends their entry-level hires to the Police Academy. On their second day there, the candidates are given 4 tests: sit and reach, sit-up, modified pushup or bench press, and the mile and one half run. If they do not pass, they are given 72 hours in which to try to again. If they do not pass the second time, they are expelled from the Academy. Therefore, he does not see why he cannot use an agility test as a bonafide job requirement. He further explained that his department has come up with a way to save some grief and money by talking with the candidates about this during the background check interview process; he said that he would like to be able to administer the agility test before an candidate even takes the written exam. Chief Thomas said that they use the Cooper Standards to score their tests. These standards are gender and age weighted. He said that a number of Police Departments use these standards and there has been no argument over their use. He said the only argument that exists is whether or not to even require the test. City Attorney Foster asked if someone could actually train in order to pass the test. Chief Thomas verified that someone could. Chairman Beasley said that all a candidate would need to do is to get a copy of the Coopers Standards to use as a training guide. City Attorney Foster asked for clarification as to when the test would be administered. Chief Thomas answered that it would be given early in the application process. Chief Riddle said that he has a concern with administering the test during the application. If a candidate passes it at application, it may be two years before he or she is actually offered a job. The candidate’s physical condition could very well change over the course of those two years. For this reason, he would prefer to see the test given at the time of the job offer. Commissioner Ubl agreed, adding that we are already testing them for several things after they have been accepted for employment and does not see why one more test could not be added at this point. Chief Riddle said that the test could be done by a work evaluation company, but thought this would be expensive and unnecessary, since the department has the equipment and instructors needed to administer the test itself. Commissioner Ubl reiterated that he thought the best time to administer the exam would be at the time of the job offer. He added that Chief Riddle must ensure that the standard used is the same for all candidates. Commissioner Ubl asked if Chief Riddle had called other departments in the area to see if they are administering an agility test as a prerequisite to hiring. Chief Riddle said that the DeKalb Fire Department uses a test called the Combat Challenge as a part of their initial testing process. He said he did not know if they required a candidate to pass it again at the time of job offer. Commissioner Ubl thought that they did have this requirement. Chief Riddle said that they, therefore, had two benchmarks to use in measuring the abilities of their candidates. He said there is a test called the Certified Physical Abilities Test, which requires the use of a lot of equipment as well as the use of a third party to administer the test. He added that this would be an expensive alternative. He felt that the items that his department would be testing the candidates on were minimal. Commissioner Ubl asked Chief Riddle to put together a proposal concerning the elements of the test to present to the Commissioners. Chief Riddle said that he would have the proposal ready to present to the Commissioners when they meet to finalize the eligibility list.

Chairman Beasley thanked the both of the Chiefs and the City Attorney for the work they had done on researching this issue. He added that he does not know why anyone would want to be a Police Officer or Firefighter if they do not have certain physical abilities, especially considering that they could be faced with a life-threatening situation that required the use of physical strength. He said he also felt that the Commissioners have the responsibility to make sure the candidates that are hired do have these physical abilities. Commissioner Ubl said another concern that he has when hiring a new Police Officer or Firefighter is the reason why the candidate wants to enter that particular career. He does not want to hire someone who "just wants a paycheck"; he wants candidates with a desire to serve the community in these capacities. He pointed out that Firefighter Ward is an excellent example of what he is looking for because he has wanted to be a Firefighter since he was a small child and he took a pay cut when he accepted the position. He added that he hoped that the real reason a candidate wants to be a Firefighter or Police Officer can be obtained in the psychological exam or the interview process. Commissioner Dailey asked if the City has ever considered the use of an agility test in the past. Chief Riddle explained that, based on the stance taken by the attorney for the State Fir and Police Commission, his Department could not initiate an agility test because he could not get the Firefighter’s union to agree to administering it to the active Firefighters. He said that he is still working with the union on this and is getting closer in obtaining their approval. Chairman Beasley said that he would think that the Firefighters would want to make sure that each one of them is fit enough to do their job. Chief Riddle answered that the test may or may not be in their best interest. He said that the union members never want to be a part of the planning process; they would rather he make a decision and then they will react to it. He said that this is why the union has derailed this issue for a few months. Chief Thomas explained that, twenty-five years ago, every department required a physical agility test; then it went out of fashion due to the passage of the Americans with Disabilities Act. Chief Riddle said that he does not wish to continue to hire new Firefighters who have conditions that should keep them from being employed as a Firefighter. He gave the example of a Firefighter who was hired in East Peoria who ended up with a medical disability due to the fact that he was claustrophobic. He said that, if this Firefighter were given the physical agility test up front, this condition would have been discovered and he never would have been hired.

 

No new business

• Police Chief

Chief Thomas reported he anticipates that Police Officer Justin Kness would successfully complete his probationary period on September 29, 2004. He said that he would send the Commissioners a letter to inform them when this does happen, but would like their permission now to be able to tell him on the 29^th that his probationary period is over and that the Commissioners will make it official at their next meeting. All of the Commissioners agreed that this would be fine. Chief Thomas also reported he anticipates that, over the next 8 months, his department will be hiring three new officers – two to fill new positions and one to replace Sgt. Snyder, who has indicated he will be retiring on June 1, 2005.

There was no closed session.

DISCUSSION

 

Commissioner Ubl asked if the Commissioners could discuss the process that they will use to interview the Firefighter candidates. Chairman Beasley explained that each member of the interviewing panel would receive a packet containing the applications of all of the candidates and the six questions to be asked. He thought that it would be nice if each member of the panel also wore a name tag, so that the people who are being interviewed would know who each panel member is. He explained that the candidates would be given a copy of the questions to refer to during the interview. He thought it would be best if each panel member asked the same question of each candidate. He reported that one candidate had already cancelled his interview appointment. He said that the questions are pretty standard, and the panel members can take notes during the interviews. Recording Secretary Tritle said that she would also supply each candidate with pen and paper so that they could write down their thoughts on each question, if they desired. Commissioner Ubl asked if the interview of each candidate would be based upon each panel member’s subjective review of the candidate rather than trying to calculate a score based on the "correct" answer to each question asked (based on the suggested positive responses provided with each question). Chairman Beasley verified that was correct. Commissioner Dailey asked if each panel member would assign their own score to each candidate, or if the panel would do it as a group. Commissioner Ubl verified that each panel member would assign an individual score. Chairman Beasley explained that each question was worth from 1 – 10 points. Chairman Beasley asked which two Fire Department members would be panel members. Chief Riddle answered that Lt. Tal Hickey and Firefighter Jack Spartz will be participating in the interviews. Commissioner Ubl suggested that Chairman Beasley perform the introductory duties with each candidate and then ask the candidate to tell the panel something about his or herself before beginning the formal questioning. Commissioner Dailey said that she is not sure that it is a wise idea to ask this question, since the candidate could volunteer information that would not normally be asked in an interview to avoid questions of discrimination. City Attorney Foster said that this was okay in this situation, since the application form used for a Firefighter or Police Officer already provides much of this information.

ADJOURNMENT

Ayes: 3

Nays: 0

Abstain: 0

The meeting was adjourned at 11:43 am