Sycamore Fire and Police Commission

Minutes

 

May 9, 2005

 

The meeting was called to order at 11:00 a.m.  In attendance were Commissioner Richard Ubl, Commissioner Samantha Dailey , Newly Sworn Commissioner Andrew Larson , Police Chief Don Thomas , Fire Chief Bill Riddle , and City Attorney Keith Foster.  Assistant Fire Chief Cary Niewold and City Manager Bill Nicklas both joined the meeting while it was in progress and left before it ended.

 

APPROVAL OF AGENDA

 

Motion

 

A motion to approve the agenda, as amended, was made by Commissioner Dailey and was seconded by Commissioner Larson.

 

Vote

 

Ayes:                3

Nays:                0

Abstain:            0

 

APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES

 

Motion

 

A motion to approve the minutes from the open session of the April 25, 2005 meeting, as written, was made by Commissioner Dailey and seconded by Commissioner Larson.

 

Vote

 

Ayes:                3

Nays:                0

Abstain:            0

 

Motion

 

A motion to approve the minutes from the closed session of the April 25, 2005 meeting, as written, was made by Commissioner Dailey and seconded by Commissioner Larson.

 

Vote

 

Ayes:                3

Nays:                0

Abstain:            0


ELECTION OF OFFICERS

 

Motion

 

A motion to elect Commissioner Ubl as the Chairman of the Sycamore Fire and Police Commission for the period of May 1, 2005 – April 30, 2006 was made by Commissioner Dailey and was seconded by Commissioner Larson.

 

Commissioner Ubl accepted the nomination, based upon the premise that it would be for one year.

 

Vote

 

Ayes:                3

Nays:                0

Abstain:            0

 

Commissioner Dailey asked for clarification as to what the positions of Chairman and Secretary actually involve.  Chairman Ubl answered that the Chairman calls and leads the meetings.  He said that the Chairman works with the Recording Secretary to set the agenda for each meeting.  Recording Secretary Tritle explained that, prior to Chairman Beasley’s tenure, the Chairman actually wrote the agenda; it has only recently evolved into a combined effort between the Chairman and the Recording Secretary.  City Attorney Foster affirmed that the job of the Chairman is to essentially run the meeting.  Regarding the position of Secretary, Recording Secretary Tritle explained that, in the past, the person in this position would write all correspondences.  Since past correspondences are kept on file, Recording Secretary Tritle explained that she uses them as a guide for any letters that now need to be sent by the Commission.  She said her role in working with the Commission has expanded since she came on board, due to the fact that she also works as the Human Resources Director for the City. 

 

Motion

 

A motion to elect Commissioner Dailey as the Secretary of the Fire and Police Commission was made by Chairman Ubl and was seconded by Commissioner Larson.

 

Commissioner Dailey accepted the nomination.

 

Vote

 

Ayes:                3

Nays:                0

Abstain:            0

 


COMMUNICATIONS

 

     

      Chairman Ubl stated that the Commission had received two letters from Chief Riddle in    which he announces that Firefighter Ward will complete all the necessary requirements of        his probationary period on May 10, 2005 and Firefighter Flatter will complete all the          necessary requirements of his probationary period on June 7, 2005. 

Motion

 

A motion to send Firefighters Ward and Flatter a letter to confirm the end of their probationary period was made by Commissioner Dailey and was seconded by Commissioner Larson.

 

 

Vote

 

Ayes:                3

Nays:                0

Abstain:            0

 

OLD BUSINESS

 

·         Review and Approve the Annual Report

 

Chairman Ubl reported that Recording Secretary Tritle had amended the Annual Report, which will be presented to the City Council at their meeting on May 16,       2005.  The amendment was needed to change the dates previously established for   the Regular Meetings of the Commission in FY06.  Chairman Ubl asked   Commissioner Larson which dates would work best with his schedule.            Commissioner Larson asked if the meeting can take place on a day other than Monday, as the only date he knows he is not available is November 7th. He added that he would be available on Tuesday, November 8th. Chairman Ubl and Commissioner Dailey confirmed that any day would be fine.  Recording Secretary Tritle said this would make the schedule of meetings May 9, 2005, August 1, 2005, November 8, 2005, and February 6, 2006.  Chairman Ubl said that he cannot meet in February, but would be available during the last week of             January.  Recording Secretary Tritle suggested that it be changed to the last Monday in January 2006; the Commissioners all agreed.

 

Motion

 

A motion to approve the Annual Report of the Commission, as amended, to be presented to the City Council at their May 16, 2005 meeting was made by Chairman Ubl and was seconded by Commissioner Dailey.

 

 

Vote

 

Ayes:                3

Nays:                0

Abstain:            0

 

·         Status on the Hiring of a New Firefighter

 

            Chief Riddle reported that candidate John Pink had completed his psychological exam.      Marv Fogel had indicated verbally to the Chief that candidate Pink had passed.       Candidate Pink also had taken the physical agility exam on May 6th, and he had passed         that as well. Chief Riddle said that an updated background exam is being done on             candidate Pink to make sure that there have been no new warrants issued on him since he   began working for the City as a Paid-on-Call College Intern two years ago. Candidate             Pink can begin work immediately after the Commissioners complete his final oral       interview.  He is already a licensed Paramedic and has been training in the Department    since he started in the Department in the Intern Program.  Commissioner Larson asked about the physical agility exam.  Chief Riddle explained that the exam was put into place       by the Commissioners last year as a prerequisite to being hired as a Firefighter.    Chairman Ubl recommended that the Commission make the final job offer to candidate        Pink once the results of his background check are received.  Chief Riddle said he should             have the results within the next two days.  Chairman Ubl said, as long as two of the three        Commissioners are available, the final interview can be scheduled at the end of the week.              Commissioner Dailey asked if the background check needed to be completed before the   final interview could be conducted.  Chief Riddle said that it should be done in the same   order as it is done for other candidates; he wants to make sure that no one can say that      short-cuts were taken for candidate Pink since he is already an employee.  Chairman Ubl             agreed.   All three Commissioners verified that they are available to conduct the final        interview on Friday, May 13, 2005, at 9:00 a.m.  Chief Riddle said that he would give   candidate Pink this information.  Recording Secretary Tritle said that she would send candidate Pink a letter as well.  Chairman Ubl asked what start date would be used.         Chief Riddle answered that candidate Pink would begin his full-time employment that   same day.  Recording Secretary Tritle asked Chief Riddle if he had received Marv   Fogel’s written report, as the Commissioners would need to review it before they conducted the final interview.  Chief Riddle answered that Mr. Fogel assured him that he      would send the report to him ASAP.  Recording Secretary Tritle asked if the final        interview could be conducted if the Commissioners did not have this report in hand by             Friday.  Chairman Ubl answered that, as long as Mr. Fogel gave Chief Riddle verbal         approval, he had no problem conducting the interview if the written report is not received        by Friday.  Recording Secretary Tritle said that she would get candidate Pink’s         application and any other paperwork she receives ready for the Commissioners to review             before they conduct the interview on Friday. 

 

·         Discussion on Amending the Rules and Regulations to Require 2-years of College as a Prerequisite for New Police Officers and the type of list eligibility list to be established

 

            Before proceeding on this topic, Chairman Ubl asked if Candidate O’Neill had accepted    the tentative job offer for employment with the Sycamore Police Department on     September 1, 2005.  Recording Secretary Tritle confirmed that she had.  Commissioner       Ubl asked if Chief Thomas had any updated information as to whether or not one of his    Police Officers will be leaving the Department due to disability.  Chief Thomas said that he did not.  Chairman Ubl said the Commissioners understand that, if the injured Police        Officer applies for a disability pension, candidate O’Neill could be hired sooner,     assuming that she is available at that time.  Chief Thomas concurred. 

 

            Chairman Ubl stated that he advocates adding the educational prerequisite for Police        Officers.  Since Chief Thomas has stated that he would like to eventually require that     candidates for promotion to the position of Sergeant or Lieutenant have a college degree,           Chairman Ubl feels that it makes sense to amend the Rules and Regulations to require a          college education at the entry level.   Chief Thomas said that the argument against            making this change would be that it would restrict the number of candidates who would            apply.  While this may be true, Chief Thomas added that he does not feel it will restrict         the number of good, qualified applicants.  He said that, in looking at the past two   eligibility lists we had, he found there were plenty of applicants with at least 60 hours of            college credits or a degree.  Chairman Ubl stated that this surprised him and added that he   did notice in the oral interviews that those candidates who had a college education          seemed to have a higher level of maturity than those who did not have any college. Chief Thomas noted that 4 out of the last 6 hires were already certified Police Officers, while           4 out of the last 5 had four-year degrees.  He recommended that the Commission avoid            requiring a two-year degree and instead make the prerequisite 60 college credits.  He       explained that Kishwaukee College offers two programs; one culminates in a two-year     degree while the other one culminates in 60 credit hours that articulate to a four-year         school.  He said that either program would be valuable to an applicant.  If the   Commissioners decide to establish this prerequisite, everyone who is then hired will have   at least two-years of college and will automatically meet the educational requirement that      he would like to institute in order for an Officer to test for the Sergeant’s promotional             exam.  Commissioner Larson asked if the candidates would receive additional points in         promotional testing because they have a two-year college education.  Chief Thomas         answered that they would not, since the only preference points given in promotional testing are for military service.  He added that this is why he has suggested they begin the      discussion on making two years of college mandatory for our managers. 

 

            Commissioner Larson stated he would oppose something like this in the Fire Service         because it would cut down on the quality of the candidates, especially those with building       trades.              However, he acknowledged that Police service is completely different.  Chief     Thomas            pointed out that, right now, the Fire Department has the requirement that       they will hire only those candidates who are certified Firefighters; the Police Department does not have this type of requirement.  He explained that, traditionally, in Policing, a           candidate cannot become certified until age 21 or older, whereas in the Fire Service,       candidates can begin to work on becoming certified at the age of 18.  He said that Police pre-service training is more collegiate, so there is not a direct correlation between Police         and Fire. Commissioner Larson acknowledged that he could see the benefit of this           requirement in the Police service. Chairman Ubl added that Firefighter candidates must             also be certified Paramedics, so they almost do have two-years of education when they     are hired, as well as a higher level of maturity.  Chairman Ubl said that, in policing, the             ability to write reports has become more valuable now than it was in earlier times and the additional education that a Police candidate receives would hopefully give them better       skills in this area. 

 

Commissioner Dailey remembered that, at their last meeting, the Commissioners discussed whether a candidate could have either two years of college or military experience.  Chairman Ubl said that former Commissioner Beasley did bring this           up; however, while it was decided that a person with military service does receive preference points, education and military service really cannot be correlated.  Recording Secretary Tritle asked if this meant that someone who went into the military right after high school instead of going to college would no longer be eligible to test for the position of Police Officer.  Chairman Ubl answered that this is correct, Chief Riddle added that many people who go into the military and have formal training, such as that given to MP’s, receive dual credit for it; many colleges will convert this training into college credits.  Also, many military personnel will attend college while they are in the service, especially if they know that they would like to become a Police Officer or a Firefighter when they are discharged.  In this way, they can remain competitive with the rest of the work force. Chairman Ubl said that “competitive” is the operative word and we want to ensure that we attract the best candidates that we possibly can.  Chief Thomas added that, in fairness to those people in the military, this prerequisite would not have knocked any candidates off of the last two eligibility lists.

 

            Commissioner Larson asked if the educational prerequisite would be at time of hire or at   the time a candidate takes the exam.  Chairman Ubl answered that this would apply at the    time of the exam.  Chief Thomas said the 60 credit hours could be verified through a         transcript check.  He added that the problem with stating that candidates must have the 60             credit hours at time of hire is that they might not have accomplished that goal by the time the job is offered to them. Commissioner Dailey said that the prerequisite needed to state     that the candidates need 60 credit hours as opposed to two years of college, as a candidate may not earn 60 credits in 2 years.  Chairman Ubl asked City Manager Nicklas if he had any thoughts on this.  Mr. Nicklas answered that he agreed with the 60-hour requirement        for the same reason stated by Commissioner Dailey.  

 

Chairman Ubl asked City Attorney Foster how rapidly the Rules and Regulations could be amended, since the Commissioners want the educational requirement to be in place when the next list is established.  City Attorney Foster answered that all he needed to do was put the amendment in writing.  Since the Commissioners will be conducting a final interview of Firefighter candidate John Pink on Friday, they could agree to just continue today’s meeting until that day and vote to accept the amendment then.  Chairman Ubl asked if the proposed amendment would need to be presented to the City Council.  City Attorney Foster answered that it did not, as it is based only upon the approval of the Commissioners.

 

Motion

 

A motion to amend the Rules and Regulations to include an educational prerequisite of 60 college credit hours for Police Officer candidates was made by Commissioner Dailey and was seconded by Commissioner Larson.

 

 

Vote

 

Ayes:                3

Nays:                0

Abstain:            0

 

City Attorney Foster said that he would put together a draft of the amendment language and then e-mail it to the Commissioners to review.   Recording Secretary Tritle asked if notice of the amendment had to be published in the newspaper as well as giving the public 10 days to respond to it.  City Attorney Foster said that notice is published after the Commission passes the amendment.  Chairman Ubl asked if a formal meeting of the Commission would be required in order to pass the amendment.  City Attorney Foster answered that, technically, it would, as the language of the amendment is what becomes the rule (as opposed to the motion) and they would need to see and agree upon that language.   However, the Commissioners can just continue today’s meeting until that time.  Chairman Ubl asked if the announcement of this meeting would need to be published.  City Attorney Foster said that it would not, since it would be a continuation of today’s meeting.  If this is the case, Chairman Ubl asked if this means that they would not adjourn today’s meeting.  City Attorney Foster answered that this is correct; at the end of today’s meeting they would indicate that this meeting would be continued on Friday at 9:00 a.m.  Chairman Ubl asked the other two Commissioners if this sounded fair to them.  Commissioners Dailey and Larson both answered that it did.

 

Chairman Ubl stated that, once this was accomplished, the Commissioners would be ready to start the search for candidates to establish a new eligibility list for Police Officers.   Since Andrew Larson is new to the Commission, Chairman Ubl asked Chief Thomas to explain the difference between establishing a list using lateral transfers or one that has both new and certified candidates on it.   Chief Thomas explained that the main difference between the two can be ascertained by the question “do you establish a list based upon a written examination OR one that is based only upon certifications?”  If you administer a written test, anyone can apply; the results of the written exam are used to proceed through the rest of the process.  He explained that, since he has been with the Sycamore Police Department, there has been one list that was predicated upon the written exam (which resulted in two of the top twelve people being certified officers) and one list that was created based solely upon certified Police Officers.  These candidates were screened through a credentialing process and a series of interviews. Chairman Ubl added that he felt that both of these methods were successful in establishing lists of excellent candidates.  Chief Thomas agreed, adding that all of the candidates that have been hired from these two lists made it through their probationary period and are still employed by the Department.  The two candidates that were just hired at the end of the year are also doing very well.  Chairman Ubl stated he recommends that the Commission use the written exam this time, but that they should actively seek certified candidates to apply.  Chief Thomas verified that this would mean they would advertise the written test, as well as all prerequisites, including the new educational requirement.  Chairman Ubl stated that he did not realize that candidates must be age 21.  Chief Thomas said that the law states a candidate must be 20 ½ to take the written exam and age 21 by the time the job is offered.   Chairman Ubl thought that they could be younger, since they must be high-school graduates.  Chief Thomas answered that these are two different criteria – a candidate must be age 21 and a high school graduate.  Commissioner Larson asked how a certified Officer would be scored in this process.   Chief Thomas answered that the term lateral transfer does not apply in this situation, as we are administering a written test to recruit anyone who meets the prerequisites.   The way we would get candidates who are already certified Officers to apply is to advertise that, if they are hired, they start at Step 2 of the salary scale, whereas a non-certified candidate starts at Step 1.  Currently, the difference in these steps is approximately $8,000.  Also, certified candidates are eligible to receive five preference points.  Though other candidates are also eligible to receive preference points for educational or military service, the new educational prerequisite will even out the playing field in this area.   Chairman Ubl asked if the maximum number of preference points a candidate can receive is five.  Chief Thomas verified that this is correct, adding that they can only be used once for each step. 

 

Commissioner Dailey asked if the process to establish a new eligibility list needed to be started as soon as possible.  Chief Thomas answered that this was correct, due to the fact that there is only one candidate left on the current list and that candidate has already been offered a position and is schedules to start on September 1, 2005.  This date could change, as Chief Thomas said that he currently has an Officer who is considering taking a disability pension.   He said he also has another Officer who is currently considering retirement and is applying for other jobs.  Therefore, it is important to get a new list established as soon as possible, in case either of these two Officers chooses to leave. 

 

Chairman Ubl stated that the hardest part of developing a list is finding the time to administer the oral examination to all eligible candidates.  The written exam takes one morning, and those results are received quickly.  Recording Secretary Tritle said that she had already called I/O Solutions to see when they would be available to come out to Sycamore and administer the written exam.  They indicated they are available on June 25th or July 9th.  Chairman Ubl explained that the Commissioners are not all required to be present at the written exam, though one of them usually is there, along with the Chief.

He explained that an orientation is conducted prior to the administration of the written exam, and that all of the candidates are required to attend orientation. If they do not, they cannot take the written exam.  Chief Thomas explained that, traditionally, a mandatory orientation session is held a few days before the administration of the written exam.   Recording Secretary Tritle added that a few years ago, the Commission decided to hold the orientation session on the same day as the written exam to accommodate those candidates who are coming from out of town.  Orientation takes place first, and then the candidates are given a short break before the written exam begins.  Chief Thomas stated that he was agreeable to the consolidation of the two.  Chairman Ubl agreed, stating that he thought that holding the orientation session and the written exam on the same day has worked out fantastically well.   He asked Chief Thomas if he would be available to address the candidates if orientation and the written exam were held on June 25th.   Chief Thomas said that he would be available and said that he would also bring along several of his Officers to speak to the candidates as well. 

 

Chairman Ubl said that the only question remaining is where this would take place.  Recording Secretary Tritle offered to contact the Library to see if the Commission could use their Community Room again.  Chief Thomas suggested she call the High School.  Recording Secretary Tritle explained that they used the Library facilities for the Firefighter written exam due to the fact that the High School said they would charge a rental fee to use their cafeteria; the Library allows the Commission to use their room for free.  Chief Thomas said that he would call the High School to see if he could work something out with them.  He said that the Farm Bureau might be another option.  Chief Riddle said that they have also used the Armory in the past.  Commissioner Dailey asked how much it would cost to use the High School.  Chairman Ubl said that he did not remember the fee he was quoted last year, but thought that it was used to pay for the staff that had to be available while the building was open on a Saturday.   Chairman Ubl said that he thought the Library facilities ending up being a good choice last year for the Firefighters exam.  The Library staff allowed the Commissioners to come in the day before the test and set up the room.   He said that he is sure we will come up with a location, we just need to do it soon so that we can let the candidates know when we advertise the testing date.

 

Recording Secretary Tritle asked City Attorney Foster if she had to wait until the 10-day period allowed for public response to the amendment to the Rules and Reg8ulations had to end before she could place the ad for Police Officer candidates.  Chief Thomas said that, by the time the amendment takes effect, we could advertise.  City Attorney Foster agreed, adding that the application deadline would be after the 10-day period has ended.  Chairman Ubl asked Recording Secretary Tritle to e-mail a draft of the ad to the Commissioners for their approval before she submits it to the newspapers for publication. She said that she had already put together a draft, which included the new educational prerequisite, and passed it out to the Commissioners to review. Chairman Ubl said that he knew the ad would be sent to the local newspapers, including the Daily Chronicle and the Midweek, but wondered if it would also appear on any websites.  Chief Thomas explained that it would appear on the Sycamore Police Department’s website, the City’s website, and at least one Police recruiting website that he knows of.  He added that, as he did last time, he would also fax or e-mail the ad to almost all of the Police departments in Illinois .   Chairman Ubl asked if the ad would appear in any other newspapers, such as the Tribune. 

Recording Secretary Tritle answered that she did not place it in the Tribune last time, but did send it to the ihirelawenforcement.com website.   She also had received solicitations from two other websites that they could use.  Chairman Ubl cautioned that using the websites could be expensive.  Chief Thomas said that there are websites that they could use that charge a minimal fee or are free. 

 

Commissioner Larson asked if the Police Officers have a residency requirement.  Chief Thomas answered that it is 20-miles, and the new Officer has 12 months in which to meet this requirement.  He added that this residency requirement is generous and does not eliminate any candidates.  Chief Riddle confirmed that Firefighters have the same requirement.  Commissioner Larson asked which testing company is used.  Chairman Ubl answered that I/O Solutions is hired to administer the written exam, but the Commissioners conduct the oral exams. 

 

·         Discussion on the use of Employment Contracts for Firefighters and Police Officers at time of hire

 

Chairman Ubl asked Chief Thomas to report his findings from researching this topic.  Chief Thomas reported he found there are a handful of Police Departments that use hiring contracts that usually cover the first two years of employment.  These contracts are agreements to reimburse for training and uniforms; if the person leaves within the first two years of employment, the contract states that they must repay the Department for these two items.  City Attorney Foster said that he had obtained copies of two contracts – one from Naperville and one from Hampshire.  Naperville ’s contract states that, if an Officer leaves within the first year employment, he or she must all expenses back to the municipality; if he or she leaves with in the second year, only half of the expenses must be paid back.  Chief Thomas clarified that Naperville ’s contact only addresses tuition reimbursement and it applies to all employees, regardless of how long they have worked there – not just during the first two years. City Attorney Foster said that Hampshire’s contract states that new Officers will owe 100% of the expenses – however, they earn a portion (1/24) of these expenses every month they are employed.  Therefore, after two years of employment, they will not be required to pay back any of these expenses if they chose to leave Hampshire.  He added that Hampshire’s contract has been contested and that it stood up in local court.  Chief Thomas asked if the Hampshire contact had any sort of provision that would allow the City to waive it on a case-by-case basis.   He said that he believes this type of provision would be important, and gave the example of an Officer who is within the first 12 months of his employment with a municipality.  This Officer does not perform well and is told that he will probably be terminated at the end of his probation.  If this Officer contemplates resigning rather than being terminated, he may choose to be terminated if resigning means that he must repay the City for his training expenses.  He added that Naperville ’s contact covers this by stating that the expenses must be paid back, regardless of the cause of the termination.  He added that he believes that it is a good management tool to have the capability to allow an Officer to resign rather than be terminated.  Commissioner Larson stated that, if the employee is fired, the City is out the money it has invested in this person, as the Officer will move on to a new municipality with his or her certifications already earned at our expense.  Chief Thomas added that the Officer will also have a firing on his or her record, making it unlikely that another agency will take him or her on as an employee.  Chief Thomas does not believe that this is a big problem for the City of Sycamore and that, to his knowledge, this has not happened in his Department.  Chair Ubl said that he has ambivalent feelings about the use of employment contracts for this purpose.  City Attorney Foster stated that, if they are not needed, they should not be used, especially since the law is not very clear on this issue.  Chairman Ubl agreed, stating that a lawsuit that could result over the use of these contacts could cost more than the training expenses.  He asked Chief Thomas for his thoughts.  Chief Thomas answered that he likes the idea of a tuition reimbursement clause, as this is totally discretionary money that the City pays to an employee for college classes, and we should not be penalized for that.  In regards to training expenses, Officers who leave the Department must return their uniforms anyway.  He believes that anyone who is really good is going to stay with the Department; if they want to move somewhere else because they are not getting along in our Department, they usually do not do this within their first year of employment. 

 

Commissioner Larson asked if they have had problems with candidates who test with many different municipalities, explaining that a candidate who does this will usually take the first job offered to him or her, knowing that he or she will move on if the Department that he or she really desires to work for ends up offering him or her a job.  Chief Thomas answered that his Department has not experienced this problem, though it did almost happen recently.   A candidate on the current list was offered a job with our Department; she knew that she would also be offered a job with another municipality within a few months, so she turned down Sycamore’s job offer.  Chief Thomas applauded her ethics, because she could have taken our job offer, completed her training, and then moved on to the other municipality shortly after her training was completed.  Chief Riddle said that Firefighter Lorenz did this; he took the job with us and was here for only a few months before he accepted a job offer in Huntley, where he had been working as a Paid-on-Call Firefighter prior to accepting the position in Sycamore.  He added that the City is not really out a lot of money – only the amounts spent for the physical and psychological exams.  Chief Thomas said he feels that his Department’s second year pay is very competitive, so eh does not worry about losing a new Officer in his or her second year on the force.  He explained that Hampshire is a small Department, and that they have become a “training ground” for larger Departments; this is why they would need employment contracts.  He does not feel that Sycamore is in the same boat.  He stated that he sees the problem occur most often while an Officer is attending the Training Academy .  Other municipalities will try to recruit new Officers at graduation.  However, in this scenario, the “capturing” municipality will almost always agree to reimburse the municipality that incurred the training expense.  He stated again that he does not believe that Sycamore has a problem in this area and would recommend that employment contracts not be implemented.  Chief Riddle agreed adding that his Department is also competitive and it is very seldom that new hires ever leave.    Chief Thomas added that he believes that City Manager Nicklas, who had left the meeting earlier, would also not be in favor of implementing these types of contracts.

 

Chairman Ubl stated that we live in a very mobile society and that, in some cases, the spouse may be the main bread-winner in the family, in which case our employee may need to move if the spouse is ever transferred.  He said that he would feel bad if we were to penalize an employee in this situation.   Commissioner Dailey asked Commissioner Larson if the Fire Department that he works for uses these types of contracts.  Commissioner Larson answered that Arlington Heights does not, but added that he knows there are a few in the Northwest Suburbs that do.  Chief Thomas added that this is a “cut-throat” area of the state.  He said that there are 250 Police Departments within the metropolitan area, and they are constantly stealing from each other – Sycamore does not have that problem.

 

Chairman Ubl expressed his appreciation for the effort that Chief Thomas and City Attorney Foster put into researching this topic.  He suggested that the question of implementing employment contacts in the City of Sycamore’s Fire and Police Departments be tabled at this point in time, adding that it could be revisited if it does become a problem as each of these Departments grow in size.  Commissioners Dailey and Larson agreed.

 

NEW BUSINESS

 

·         Promotional Testing Schedule for Fire Lieutenants and Police Sergeants

 

            Chief Riddle reported that the current promotional list for the position of Fire Lieutenant expires on November 1, 2005.  The Commissioners need to begin to take the necessary steps to ensure that a new list is in place by this date.  He explained that, according to the procedures set forth in the Firefighters Promotion Act, a notice must be posted at least 90 days prior to the exam.  The Commissioners need to develop some sort of timeline, as the written exam is now the last step of the promotional process.  Chairman Ubl asked Chief Riddle to review what this process will entail, as this is the first time that he and Commissioner Dailey will be involved in the promotional testing process.  Chief Riddle explained that a Firefighter is eligible to take the exam if he or she has over five years of experience.  Qualified Firefighters must submit a letter to the Commissioners, which states their intent to take the test.  Ninety days before the exam, the Firefighters must be given a list of the study materials, which is obtained from I/O Solutions, the agency that will administer the written exam.  Under the Firefighters Promotion Act, the points that are assigned by the Chief to each Firefighter taking the exam and the military preference points, if applicable, are accumulated and added to the oral exam score of each candidate.  Chairman Ubl asked who administers the oral exam.  Chief Riddle answered that I/O Solutions did it last time, but the Commissioners will give it this time.  Or, the Commissioners could have another entity administer the oral exam, in which case the Commissioners would then act as observers.   He recommended that the written exam be given no later that November 10th.  It must be graded instantly; any questions that are considered to be “bad” are eliminated.  This is determined by a member of the Union and a member of management, who review the test.  Chief Riddle said that he likes the way that everything is done by the time the written test is given.  He said that the Act was passed to ensure that this is now a more objective process.  He said that the Act allows every individual municipality/district to determine the formula for calculating each candidate’s score through the collective bargaining process. Chairman Ubl asked if the candidates are being assigned points throughout the process, or if these points are assigned at a particular step in the process.   Chief Riddle answered that the theory has always been that somehow people would leak the test scores and then “cook the books” in some way, causing candidates to believe there was bias involved in assigning scores.   Recording Secretary Tritle asked if, in this new

 

process, the preliminary list is eliminated and only a final list is posted.  Chief Riddle answered that this is correct.  Commissioner Larson said that, in Arlington Heights , a new list does come out at each step.

 

Chairman Ubl clarified that Commission, by July 1, needs to put out a notice that the promotional testing process will begin.  Commissioner Dailey asked if there are a certain number of openings for Lieutenants and Sergeants that must be filled.  Chief Riddle answered that the law requires that a new list be established every three years; any openings that occur during the life of that list will be made from that list.  Chairman Ubl reviewed that a Firefighter must have 5 years of experience to qualify and that they must submit a letter of interest.  Notice of the test must be posted 90 days in advance and Chief Riddle will supply interested candidates with the study materials.  Chief Riddle will also be assigning points to each candidate.  Commissioner Larson explained that, in Arlington Heights , the Firefighters submit their letter of intent so that the Commissioners know how many copies of the test to order.  At some point the Chief may be assigning seniority points.  The candidates will then be asked to submit their requests for applicable preference points.  A list is then complied of the scores to date.  He said that, at each step of the process, he always knew where he stood in relation to the other candidates.  Recording Secretary Tritle said that she was confused, as she thought that only one list was compiled and posted, and that was at the end of the process when all points have been earned or assigned.  Chief Riddle said that it is a running score; a list is compiled of seniority and preference points, then another after the oral exams are administered, and then a final list after the written exam is completed.  Chief Riddle explained that the entire process was designed so that nothing is hidden from view from the candidates.  Chairman Ubl asked if a meeting of the Commissioners would be needed to tally the points. Chief Riddle answered that they would not need to have a formal meeting.  Chairman Ubl verified that the points for seniority, military, the oral exam, and the written exam are all combined for a final score. Chief Riddle answered that this is correct, adding that there is a formula that must be followed when calculating the final score.  Commissioner Larson asked Chief Riddle if he wanted to use I/O Solutions again.  Chief Riddle answered that he liked I/O Solutions, as they have a standard promotional test that is used nationwide.  He added that he wanted to add some questions to the written exam that cover MABIS procedures, the union contract, and a several other topics.  Commissioner Larson asked if I/O Solutions decided which books would be used for study materials.   Chief Riddle answered that that they do.  Commissioner Larson asked if materials that are not chosen by I/O Solutions could also be used.   Chief Riddle answered that they could.   Chairman Ubl asked Commissioner Larson if Arlington Heights used I/O Solutions for their promotional testing.  Commissioner Larson said that they did not use them this time, though they have in the past.  Chairman Ubl asked Commissioner Larson if he was comfortable with I/O Solutions.  Commissioner Larson answered that he felt they gave an excellent test.  He did have a concern, though, it that I.O Solutions gave the test to 35 candidates and only 11 passed; this is why he thinks Arlington Heights did not have I/O Solutions administer their last promotional exam.  Chief Riddle added that he liked their exam due to the fact that, since it has been given hundreds of times, it has been validated.  Also, under the Firefighters Promotion Act, the written score is added to the other scores no matter what it is – there is no passing score. 

 

Commissioner Larson asked Chief Riddle what date he thought should be used for the written exam.  Chief Riddle answered that October 1st would be the absolute latest date he would use for the written exam.  Chairman Ubl verified that the notice of the testing process should be posted by July 1st.  Recording Secretary Tritle asked what the deadline date would be for receipt of the letter of intent from each candidate.  Chief Riddle suggested using July 15th as the deadline date.  Commissioner Larson stated that the union contracts state a minimum of 90 days.  He noted that there is large amount of reading material for the candidates to review, and they will be doing this over the summer months, possibly during vacations, etc.  He said that he feels we will get better-qualified candidates if we allow then longer than the required 90 days to study for the exam.  Chief Riddle said that he could release the reading list immediately.  Chairman Ubl suggested making the announcement of the testing process on June 1st, rather than on the first of July.  Recording Secretary Tritle said she recalled that, during the last promotional testing process, a letter was sent to all of the qualified Fire and Police Departments candidates to inform them that the process was coming up.  She said that an announcement was made that could be posted in each department as well.  She verified that the Commissioners wanted the announcement to be sent to the candidates on June 1st, with the letters of intent due back by June 10th.  After that, the study materials would be released and the written exam scheduled to be given on October 1st.  The Commissioners all agreed.  Chairman Ubl added that the Commissioners could set the date for the oral interviews at another time, as long as they are done prior to October 1st.  Chief Thomas reminded him that the oral exam must be completed prior to the administration of the written exam.  Commissioner Dailey asked if the oral exams would then need to be done sometime in September.  Commissioner Larson said that he thought so, adding that they could schedule a few each night.  Chairman Ubl agreed.  Commissioner Larson pointed out that October 1 is a Saturday.  Chief Riddle said that he believes Saturday is a good day on which to administer the written exam.  Recording Secretary Tritle said that she would check and make sure that I/O Solutions is available on this date.  She asked the Commissioners for an alternate date, just in case I/O Solutions is not available on a Saturday.  She suggested any day during the week of October 3rd.  The Commissioners all agreed. Chairman Ubl asked how many of the Firefighters are qualified to take the promotional exam.  Chief Riddle answered he thought that there are eight who are interested.  Chief Thomas asked the Commissioners to remember that they also needed to conduct the promotional exam for Police Sergeants.  Recording Secretary Tritle said that the Police and Fire exams were all given at the same time during the last testing process and wondered if they would be able to be done together this time.  Chief Thomas said that he believed that they could.  Recording Secretary Tritle said that the Police Sergeant’s list also expires on November 1, 2005, and wondered if they could get both testing processes done by then.  Chief Thomas explained that their test is conducted in much the same way – the Chief can assign up to 10 points for merit to each candidate and up to 15 points for seniority.  40% of the written exam score is added to these points along with 35% of the oral exam score.  He believes that the testing for Police Sergeant can be done on the same dates as the Fire Lieutenant’s test, along with nearly the same procedure.  He added that the Police promotional exam does not need to be administered according to any statute.  He agreed that June 1st would be a good date on which to make the announcement of the testing process and request letters of intent by June 10th.  He will then give the Commissioners a sealed letter containing the Chief’s points and the seniority points by August 1st.  After that date, The Commissioners can begin the oral interview process.   The written exam can be administered on the same day that the Fire written exam is given.  Recording Secretary Tritle asked if this meant that the Police Department would also reverse its testing order for the promotional exam, administering the oral exam before the written portion.  Chief Thomas said that would be perfectly fine with him. Chairman Ubl asked if the Chief’s and seniority points are posted when they are received.  Chief Thomas answered that they could be, if that is what the Commissioners choose to do.  However, the Commissioners actually only need to produce two lists – the first list that has the Chief’s and seniority points as well as the written and oral exam scores all added together, and a final list that includes military preference points.  He reiterated that he would not object to the Commissioners posting a third list consisting only of the Chief’s and seniority points.  He said that these points are 25% of the candidates’ total score.  Commissioner Larson said that he knows military preference points may only be applied once in any promotional testing process.  Therefore, if a candidate has a large lead in score over the other candidates, he asked if the candidate still needed to apply for military preference points or if they could be used another time.  Chief Thomas answered this was correct, adding that the military preference points are not a percentage – they are 5 raw points added on to the total score.  Chairman Ubl asked if the oral exams for Police Sergeant would also be completed prior to the written exam.  Chief Thomas answered that this was correct.  He added that he thought there were 10 qualified candidates in his Department.  Chief Riddle added that, under the Fire Promotional Act, all of the candidates must be given an oral interview, which is not the case with the Police; only those who pass the written exam are given the oral exam.  This is going to make the oral exam process more time-consuming this time.  Chairman Ubl asked if the police candidates were grandfathered out for educational requirements (even though they all do happen to have them), for this testing process.  Chief Thomas answered this was correct.  Recording Secretary Tritle verified that the procedure will be the same for both Departments – all interested candidates will take the oral exam prior to the written exam.  Commissioner Larson asked if the union contracts were in agreement with this.  Chief Thomas said they are, due to the fact that it is up to the Commissioners as to when interviews of candidates are to be conducted.  Chief Thomas added that, if the Commissioners wished to conduct the Police Sergeant oral exams after the written exam is administered, that is okay as well – it is their decision.

 

Commissioner Larson asked if there was a minimum passing score for the Police Sergeant exam.  Chief Thomas answered that was up to the Commissioners.  He added, however, that he does not believe there should be one.  Commissioner Larson said that Arlington Heights requires the candidates to get 70% on the written exam, explaining that the thought behind this is that, if there is a candidate who can’t score a 70%, he should not be one who is making important decisions at a fire scene.  Chief Riddle said that he would check the Firefighters contract and Promotion Act for this.  Chief Thomas said that, if the Commissioners decide to set a passing score of 70% that might eliminate a few candidates.  Commissioner Larson asked Chief Thomas if an acting Officer in his Department is in charge of anywhere from 3 to 5 people and if a Sergeant is in charge of a shift.  If so, is this person making life and death decisions?  Chief Thomas answered that an acting Officer can be in charge of anywhere from 2 to 5 people and is actually the Acting Chief after 5:00 p.m. until someone who is a higher rank can get to the building.  Commissioner Larson asked if Chief Thomas would be comfortable with someone who only scored 40% on the written exam making life and death decisions for his Department.  Chief Thomas answered that he would not feel comfortable; however, if a candidate only receives 40%, the odds of that person ending up at the top of the list are pretty slim.   

 

Commissioner Larson asked how the position of Acting Officer is filled in the Police Department; i.e. is the person who is ranked #1 on the list always made the Acting Officer, or can the person ranked #4 also be put in that position?  Chief Thomas answered the position is assigned based on the Officer’s ranking on the Sergeant’s eligibility list.  Chairman Ubl asked if the “Rule of Three” could apply here.  Chief Thomas answered that, due to the fact that they have three different shifts, they usually go by the person’s ranking on the eligibility list.   Chief Riddle said that, in the Fire Department, the Union contact states that the acting Officer is the most senior member on the shift.  Commissioner Larson pointed out that the Fire Department could then possibly have a Firefighter who only scored 40% on the written exam assigned as the acting Officer on his shift.  He added that this is his main concern about not requiring a minimum score on the written exam.  Chief Thomas reiterated that their acting Officers are assigned by their ranks after all of the scores are combined.  Commissioner Larson said that this helps to curb a candidate who has achieved a low written score from being the acting Officer.  Chief Thomas agreed, adding that this candidate will also not get promoted.  Chairman Ubl asked if an Officer with many years of service would receive a large number of seniority points.  Chief Thomas answered this was correct – up to 15 points.  Chairman Ubl said that, in this case, even if this candidate receives a low written score, his or her overall score could be boosted by the seniority points to the point where he or she could possibly be promoted.  Chief Thomas said that the Chief’s points might possibly help in this situation, as well as the fact that a candidate in this position will probably score poorly on the oral exam.  Chairman Ubl said there is no guarantee on this. Chief Thomas added that he does not believe that any candidates were eliminated from the last promotional exam.  Recording Secretary Tritle said that she does not remember a minimum score being used last time. Chief Thomas said it was up to the Commissioners as to whether or not they wished to set a minimum score for the written exam – he added that he did not care either way.   His experience has shown him that, the difference between someone who scores a 70 and a 69 is very minimal.  He believes it is unlikely that they will have a candidate score a 40, 50, or even a 60; he believes that the scores will be very close.  City Attorney Foster asked what the highest score is that a candidate could receive.  Chief Thomas answered 100%, but this 100% only translate into 40 points, since the written promotional exam score is 40% of the overall score. He added that the 10 potential Chief’s points awarded to a candidate are important because it is a lot of points. 

 

Chairman Ubl said he thought the Commissioners now have a good idea as to how this process works, though the Chiefs may have to walk them through a few of the steps.  Chief Riddle said that he would try to put together a list of the steps to share with the Commissioners.  Chairman Ubl said that they also had the instructions that were put together for the Commission by City Attorney Foster, though they will still need to go through the process slowly.   Recording Secretary Tritle verified that the Commissioners agreed that the written exam for the Police and Fire Departments could both be given on the same day.  She would like to know for sure so that she can pass this information on to I/O Solutions.  The Commissioners agreed.  Chief Riddle pointed out that having I/O Solutions come out only once would help to cut down on the costs as well.   Recording Secretary Tritle asked if an outside person was needed to act as the proctor for the exam.   Both Chiefs said that they would come up with proctors. 

 

Chairman Ubl asked Chief Thomas if he had checked on individuals or organizations that they could use to administer polygraph tests.  Chief Thomas said he would put together a list for the Commissioners.                 

·         Fire Chief

 

Chief Riddle had no other business to report.

 

·         Police Chief

 

Chief Thomas had no other business to report.

 

CLOSED SESSION

 

Motion

 

A motion to go into closed session to discuss personnel matters was made by Commissioner Dailey and was seconded by Commissioner Larson.

 

Vote

 

Ayes:                3

Nays:                0

Abstain:            0

 

Closed session began at 11:20 a.m.

 

Motion

 

A motion to return to open session was made by Chairman Ubl and was seconded by Commissioner Larson.

 

Vote

 

Ayes:                3

Nays:                0

Abstain:            0

 

Open session reconvened at 11:35 a.m.

 

CONTINUATION

 

Motion

 

A motion to continue the meeting on Friday, May 13, 2005 at 9:00 a.m. to review the amendment to the Rules and Regulations was made by Chairman Ubl and was seconded by Commissioner Dailey

 

 

Vote

 

Ayes:                3

Nays:                0

Abstain:            0

 

 

May 13, 2005

 

The meeting was called to order at 9:20 a.m.  In attendance were Commissioner Richard Ubl, Commissioner Samantha Dailey , Commissioner Andrew Larson , and City Attorney Keith Foster .

 

Chairman Ubl explained that the reason for the continuance of the May 9, 2005 meeting was to approve the Resolution to the Rules and Regulations of the Sycamore Police and Fire Commission.   This amendment would now require that candidates for the position of Police Officer must have completed no less than 60 hours of post secondary education at an accredited college or university prior to making application for the position.

 

Motion

 

A motion to adopt the Resolution to the Rules and Regulations which requires that candidates for the position of Police Officer must have completed no less than 60 hours of post secondary education at an accredited college or university prior to making application for the position was made by Chairman Dailey and was seconded by Commissioner Larson.  

 

 

Vote

 

Ayes:                3

Nays:                0

Abstain:            0

 

Chairman Ubl said that, now that this Resolution is adopted, the Commissioners would proceed to advertise the announcement for the establishment of a new eligibility list for the position of Police Officer.  This announcement will include the fact that at least 60-hours of college credits are now needed in order to be qualified to test for the position. 

 

Recording Secretary Tritle stated that the Chronicle could publish the notice of the Resolution in the Monday, May 16th, edition of their newspaper.  She asked City Attorney Foster if the Resolution becomes effective today, even though the public is given 10 days from the date of publication of the notice to express any concerns they may have about this amendment.  City Attorney Foster answered that this was essentially correct, though it is effective now in terms of the prerequisites that will be required of the candidates who apply for the position of Police Officer when the Commission advertises the commencement of the testing process in a few weeks.  Recording Secretary Tritle verified that this means it is effective on the 13th day of May, and the 10 days referred to in the notice that will be published starts from that date.  City Attorney Foster answered that this was correct. 

 

Chairman Ubl asked if there was any new business to be brought before the Commission.  Recording Secretary Tritle gave each of the Commissioners a copy of the final version of the Annual Report for their approval.  She asked them to review it and then sign it so that it can be presented at the City Council meeting on Monday night. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

ADJOURNMENT

 

Motion

 

A motion to adjourn the meeting was made by Chairman Ubl and was seconded by Commissioner Dailey.

 

 

Vote

 

Ayes:                3

Nays:                0

Abstain:            0

 

The meeting was adjourned at 9:26 a.m.

 

 

 

Minutes accepted by:

 

 

 

 

 

____________________________________________

Richard Ubl, Chairman                                      Date

 

 

Attest: